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Home arrow All Discussions arrow The Great Britain-France Debate
Here is where letters sent to the paper magazine and where subjects or opinions of interest to Riviera expats may be discussed and commented upon. Your subject suggestions are welcome by email to This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it . We reserve the right to delete any comment without notice or explanation. We may also edit any comment at our sole discretion for reasons such as  profanity, defamation, racism or otherwise inappropriate content.

The Great Britain-France Debate Print
Written by Paula West, Nov 2006   

I am fascinated by the letters (Mailbag issue 116 & 117) from your readers Dave Collar and Dr Sheila Rossan stating that the French get what they want because they protest until their politicians give it to them. It’s obvious that the French refuse to let their governments ride roughshod over them. They steadfastly cling on to their way of life, and that’s what Britons should be doing. Dr Rossan’s term “grassroots democracy” is spot on. In a democracy, the people are the boss, not the politicians. In dictatorships it’s the other way round.

And I’m not surprised by the recent survey that says that a fifth of Britons would rather have been born French. Not just live in France but actually be French. They’re right and I’m amongst them. In order to establish its “strong economy” Britain has exchanged the quality of life of the majority of the people for a higher quality of life for the very few. That’s democracy?

It’s no surprise that the survey showed that Brits seem to be more aware of French cultural and historic icons than their own. While 93% of British people could name the Eiffel Tower, only 83% could identify Blackpool’s equivalent. And more people could name Paris’ Arc de Triomphe (69%) than London’s Marble Arch (40%).

What’s the use of having “Europe’s strongest economy” and supposedly being the world’s 4th richest country if the everyday Briton has to live with rotting rubbish for a week or more because the so-called “strong economy” can’t even pay for something as simple and hygienically vital as regular collection? Where’s that economic strength when our third-world health care system is too under financed to properly fund the NHS so that many Britons resort to seeking health care abroad – often in France or Germany? What hope is there for British industry when our work week is so long and tiring that productivity levels are well below the French? What does this strong economy mean for our brightest young people when higher education is only available to the well-off and to those who are willing to put themselves into years of crippling student debt? What’s the point of being economically strong when so many of our older citizens have such miserly pensions that they have no other choice but to work until the day they die? Just look at the age of people working in British shops and supermarkets. Wouldn’t Britons be much better off if so many of them weren’t forced into menial labour in their old age? It’s easy to see that the advantages of our so-called “strong economy” haven’t trickled down to the man in the street. Some prosperity!

The knock-on effects of all this is that British personal bankruptcy and property repossession is the highest in Europe, yobbery and street crime is at shameful levels and Britain boasts the highest crime rates in the EU.
Most Britons would be much better off of they had more of the things that the French think makes life worthwhile – time with family, extended holidays, more days off work, long lunches – and fewer of the things that make our British economy “strong”. It might well be strong for a few fat cats but the average Brit doesn’t see much evidence of that economic strength in his everyday life.

Even where Britain comes out on top there are caveats. We are supposed to have less unemployment than France (around 10% in France and 5% in Britain). Yet no one looks at the employment levels which are almost identical (74% of people of working age). The only way to reconcile similar employment figures and very different unemployment figures is that the two countries don’t count their unemployed and employed according to the same criterion.

Britain might be rich but a greater proportion of its people live poorly. France might be poorer but people’s lives are richer in almost every way. There are signs that don’t lie: the “poor” French live, on the average, 4 years longer than the British and their health care system assures that their later years are of a higher quality. Your chances of surviving a serious illness like cancer, stroke or heart attack are statistically much greater in France.

You’d think that British economic strength could finance a decent education for all our children. Not so. One in five British children cannot find the UK on a map of the world according to a new report by National Geographic Kids magazine. The study also claims that one in 10 children cannot name a single continent. Less than two-thirds of children (60%) were able to locate the US, and despite dominating news headlines in recent years, 86% failed to identify Iraq.

I spent 18 years in France until my husband passed away. I then went back to the UK to be closer to my extended family but only managed 18 months there until I realised that the British social and economic system was vastly inferior to the French one for the average person. No wonder so many Britons want to escape! We’re told that 1000 people a day leave England. And we’re also told that 1500 enter, mostly from developing nations and the former Eastern block. We Britons have surrendered our way of life to foreigners. We’ve embraced crime, our streets are littered with rubbish, and nobody gives a damn. I was  born into a British Britain, but sadly that place no longer exists. At least I am one of the lucky ones to have had a French base to go back to.

Be grateful you’re living here and not there. I know I am.  


Paula West

Comments (5)add
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written by Nina Kent , 12 January 2008
At the request of my French friends I am writing to congratulate Paula West's opinion on the "Great Britain-France Debate" in your last issue. They and I were in almost complete accord with her statement. It was brought it to my attention because they thought it was the first truly positive statement about the French they could remember seeing in the Reporter, which they also read.
This may or may not be quite true but there is very often an air of negativity towards the French. Can it be envy I wonder? I suppose I should have started my letter by confessing I am English and have been a Francophile since my first visit here in the 50's. I am afraid I have noticed quite a tendency in your worthy magazine towards this negativity about our hosts; that is how I think of the French people. I am a Resident who has lived here full time for more than ten years. Of course, the French are not perfect, however, I am so tired of reading in the British press and hearing on the media of just how awful they are.
Dining with expats has become something to do less and less frequently. Invariably within 15 minutes one is bombarded with a barrage of complaints about the French. It's not for nothing that the Australians refer to us as, "whinging poms". Don't any of us remember that we probably came, uninvited, to enjoy the good life there is here and that it is the people of this country who have created the wonderful life-style and culture we enjoy so much? My only carp with Ms. West's piece is her statement that "We Britons have surrendered our way of life to foreigners." It may be possible that one day our hosts may feel that they have surrendered their way of life to us foreigners.
Mrs. Nina Kent, Juan les Pins
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written by Riviera Reporter , 12 January 2008
Many of us agree with Paula, at least in part, for what she wrote. But I'm mystified by judgements such as yours about this magazine's treatment of France and the French. When it comes to gauging our objectivity it's as if every "negative" point (and there are some which should be said) counts ten while every positive point (we mention plenty in every issue) doesn't count at all. In fact, most issues are very "pro" French and much of our regular "Wish you were There?" column points out why many of us are better off here than in the UK.
I read the French press extensively and it is just as critical of France as the British press is of Britain. Both are far more critical than this publication is of either country.
What you are effectively saying is that those of us who have been contributing taxes and toil towards the wealth and welfare of this country (in my case for over 35 years), not to mention adding a few half-breeds to its population, should not exercise the same right to grumble as do the native-born locals. Try telling that to an Indian born Briton, to a Dutch born American or to a French born Canadian.
M.M.

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written by Troy Madison , 05 February 2008
As an American I'd like to weigh in on your "them vs us" debate. After 4 years of living here I have to say that I DO find the French to be intellectually superior in many ways, at least compared to the average American. But given the hideous state of American education, that isn't hard to do. France's educational system is great in comparison. True, there are many French who don't speak with "sparkle" ? but only until you make the first step. In that respect, they are very careful not to offend. I do think that the reputed "snobbish" problem comes from the fact that they are horribly insecure with who they are, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Americans in general are absolutely certain that we and our country are God's gift to the world. I prefer the French attitude by far.
As for the social problems, what country doesn't have them? Anyone who thinks that Sarko's Bush-like economic plans are going to save France need only to look at what privatization and US-style "capitalism" has done to the American economy. The stumbling housing/mortgage problem is a much bigger catastrophe than we are told. France would be far better off sticking with their "evil socialist governments" than going with a French Bush by the name of Sarkozy.

Family and personal time are an important part of the French lifestyle, and it would be a shame if it were to be wiped out by 80-hour work weeks with frozen salaries and outsourcing on a massive scale.

Troy Madison
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written by R. Wall , 08 February 2008
I get a bit weary of all this "they're better than us", "no they're not" rubbish. We're all different, not better or worse. You want medical care, be in France. You want entrepreneurship, be in the UK. You can't have the best of everything everywhere or that's where we'd all be.
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written by Mark Hisbern , 14 February 2008
I have no problem about being critical of my kids because I want them to be as good as they can so I also have no problem with being critical of France. The great thing about living in different cultures is that you get to compare them from real experience. There's no reason why we shouldn't be critical about what is wrong with this country as long as we're also willing to be complimentary about what is right about it too.
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