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Do the French want this? Print
Written by George Renfrew   

Reader George Renfrew looks at whether the British example is one President Sarkozy should follow and why the French should be careful of what they wish for.

I am struck by the number of Britons who want to leave Britain. Ten per cent have already done so and the flow continues at the rate of 200,000 a year. Yet last year, 600,000 foreigners streamed in from former colonies and from recently “EU-ed” Eastern Europe . The new French president doesn’t hide his admiration for the British model but is this what the French people really want?

Does France want to replace Britain as the holder of Europe’s highest rates of functional illiteracy, street crime, gratuitous stabbings, drug use, private debt, personal bankruptcy, house repossession, car theft, domestic violence, child abuse, public drunkenness and teenage pregnancy? Do they want their elderly to finish in financial distress while taxpayer’s millions are handed out to new arrivals who haven’t – and never will – pay a penny into the system? Do they want Europe’s most benevolent welfare state for outsiders (a system which, bizarrely, was fostered by Margaret Thatcher in order to attract the low-cost foreign labour demanded by business)

If President Sarkozy succeeds in making France like Britain, here is what the French will get:
Months-long waits to see a doctor for the simplest medical or dental act; several months’ salary for medical procedures that are currently free; cancer and heart disease survival rates lower than even Poland’s; private health insurance with companies that will leave them high and dry when they go bankrupt; MRSA-ridden hospitals run on economic rather than on medical grounds and where many patients come out sicker than when they went in; women giving birth in hospital corridors and even in hospital toilets; hospital staff that don’t speak the native language.

The pensions they’ve worked hard to accumulate tied up in private schemes that often go broke if the high flying “boss” hasn’t already absconded with the funds; the elderly forced to work into their 80s before perishing of neglect in shoddy understaffed care homes; appalling public transport at outrageous prices; motorways clogged to a standstill; a system of higher education that all too often admits students depending upon the wealth of the parents and not the academic abilities of the student; derelict state schools where discipline is as non-existent as is learning;  councils with the right to tax the beauty of the view from their home.

Gangs of armed feral youths roaming urban streets; a police force so afraid of being accused of human rights abuse that it remains largely invisible; extremist Islamic fanatics allowed to openly preach hate and violence in the name of "freedom of religion"; the most crowded prisons in Europe;  the “right” of foreigners to be tried in the language of their choice even if they fluently speak the national language;  over 12% of inhabitants who can’t speak that language; masses of unemployed foreigners granted cash benefits from the day they arrive and forevermore without ever having paid anything in and without ever appearing in the official unemployment statistics; fewer rights on a citizen’s return from a stint abroad than a newly arrived foreigner has.

Fathers holding two jobs just to repay the mortgage on an average family home; working hours so long that parents rarely see their families and only have a few days vacation each year; families holding so much debt that many can never hope to repay it; foreign investors holding ownership and control of most national flagship companies; no remaining national auto manufacturers;  the stench and health risks that go with infrequent rubbish collection; poor pensioners imprisoned for refusing to pay an outrageous council tax while rich celebrities like Pete Doherty are allowed to drug and drive without punishment.

We’re told that Britain is ever-so-wealthy but that is clearly nonsense. Wealthy countries don’t live this poorly and the British people see little evidence of this theoretical wealth. Their private debt exceeds GDP and therefore their ability to pay it back. That’s wealth?

If we are truly the world’s fourth richest country then who’s holding all the money? Not the Great British public who worked to create all that wealth, that’s for sure.

On the other hand, we’re told that France is on the decline but in practice the superior quality of French life is still indisputably better than the British way. The nay-sayers tell us that the fall of France is just around the corner but they’ve been predicting that for decades and it hasn’t happened yet. Yet the demise of Britain has indeed happened without a doubt. Does France (or any other country) really want to imitate the abysmal quality of the average Briton’s way of life? A quality that fuelled the desire to leave in so many of us?

If the French knew the truth about the life of the average Briton they would hope that imitating the past four decades of British economic and social policies is not what President Sarkozy has in mind. We don’t know whether the French model will endure but we do know that the British economic model has already abysmally failed all but a very few Britons. 

George Renfrew
 

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written by Shortia , 13 September 2008
"functional illiteracy, street crime, gratuitous stabbings, drug use, private debt, personal bankruptcy, house repossession, car theft, domestic violence, child abuse, public drunkenness and teenage pregnancy?"

Of course, France is a Utopian society and none of these problems exist in France. I find what Mr Renfrew says as just plain idiotic. I feel sorry for anyone that has such a dim view of their own country.

I genuinely hope that Sarkozy can change this pre-historic lifestyle that exists in France.
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written by Mike P , 14 September 2008
George Renfrew has taken snapshots of some of the worst aspects of UK life to illustrate his points. Everything he has said is true, he has not just picked on a few isolated incidents, and all that he has stated happens to an extent which many people find disturbing.

France is by no means a Utopia and there is much to criticize and plenty of room for improvement, but in general the quality of life and amenities that most people enjoy in France is higher than that which most people in the UK have to endure.

Britain has become a nasty violent country of government sponsored bullies making the lives of the innocent miserable whilst over protecting the rights of the minorities. Nobody dares to speak out for fear of being 'politically incorrect' or 'racist', people are spied upon as they put their rubbish out, and so it goes on.

Just as an example, pimply 18 year old youths in cheap polyester uniforms posing as 'security' all over the place do nothing to curb the violence in the streets, they simply exceed their powers to make life miserable for decent people. Last night in a market town in Sussex one of the above mentioned tried to prevent me from using a toilet at a cinema complex, because I was not in possession of a ticket for the cinema. The fact that the rest of my party were standing in a queue to buy tickets did not seem to get through his shaven skull. Funnily enough though when I stood up to him and pushed past to go to the facilities, which by the way were filthy and smelly, he took no action. More people need to stand up to, and speak out against, all forms of bullying.

Th French have their faults, unquestionably, but I do think they have a better attitude to life in most ways than that which has become so prevalent in the UK in the last 15 or so years.
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written by Shortia , 15 September 2008
I agree with most of what you say there Mike - I just don't think Mr Renfrew is making these comments from his new home in La Trinite.

I've seen more street crime in Nice than I ever did in Glasgow. Sure, the UK has its faults but to compare it to all the 'nicey nice' aspects of France is like comparing cheese with shit.
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written by Mike P , 15 September 2008
Glasogw had its day though didn't it, rather like NYC, and has been massively cleaned up, whereas nobody seems to accept that Nice has a crime problem, and that is rather French, to ignore a problem (problem, what problem?) in the hope it will go away.

I think this supports my view of UK to some extent

"MPs, in a report to be published on Tuesday, paint an apocalyptic vision of worsening violent crime and family breakdown unless urgent steps are taken to halt an inevitable slide into delinquency for children from broken homes. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/news/newstopics/politics/labour/2957368/Gordon-Brown-and-David-Cameron-urged-to-work-together-to-avert-social-breakdown.html?DCMP=EMC-new_15092008



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written by PammyK , 15 September 2008
OF COURSE France is not perfect. No where is. There are some areas (like Ariane or Clichy) which are much worse than others, just like in England. In the past 10 years I have lived in middle class areas in both the UK and France and my parents and sister still live in Norwich and I visit them almost every month (thank you Stelios!). I see a lot more public misbehaviour, yobbery, drunkeness and street crime there than I have ever experienced here.

My personal experience is that the French are sometimes aloof, rude and unhelpful but they are also less violent and better behaved in public than the English (I can't speak for Scotland as I've never been there).

All you have to do is live in a non-posh UK neighbourhood for a while and absorb a few government figures (as announced in the serious media like BBC) to see that alcohol abuse, teenage pregnancy and many other social problems are more prevalent in the UK Than almost anywhere else in Europe. All you have to do is watch British TV with its popular shows about Brits misbehaving at home and abroad to see how so many English revel in their own decadence. My God, some places in Greece and Spain are taking special measures just to tame the animalistic behaviour of British "tourists". Not the Germans or the Swedish or the Italians - just the British. And this rubbish is screened proudly on British TV!

Who wants to watch shows that show their own countrymen drunk and vomiting and making sexual gestures on foreign streets? Apparently enough British people to do television shows about it. I don't know who's more disgusting - the degenerate that behave this way or the dumb British public that watches it.

France and the French people have many faults but if you look at the whole picture objectively, they are better behaved and more civilised than the British. Mr Renfrew isn't voicing opinion. He's expressing something sadly obvious.

Apart from the stupid British political correctness what is another difference between the countries? Crime and disgusting behaviour in Britain is often done by the British themselves (though not always). Look at the convictions in any credible English paper and you see many English names. Now look at the convictions in Nice-Matin stories. You don't see many Jean-Pauls and Michels but you do see a lot of Rachids and Mustaphas. Call me racist but it seems like much of the crime here is not done by native French people.

Mike P is right in his evaluation of both countries.


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written by PammyK , 15 September 2008
I just now got the reference to La Trinité which I hadn't understood before. I too am pretty sure Mr Renfrew isn't writing from there but La Trinité is the exception not the rule, any more than Brixton or Bradford are the rules in England.

The points Mike P and G Renfrew make are not exceptional. The cinema guard story illustrates just one typical example of what many normal British people have to put up with in my experience. As Mr Renfrew points out, millions of them are so disgusted that they leave and they tend to not regret it on the whole. How bad can a country be when so many of its own people see leaving it as their only hope for a decent life? I can understand why many Eastern Europeans come to Britain seeking a better life (France has quotas, I think) but we shouldn't have to.

I would live in Britain again if it was the way it used to be when I was in school there. We were once such a good and decent nation. Whatever has gone wrong?
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written by Walgren , 15 September 2008
Are there really security guards in British cinemas? Is there a real need for them? I have never seen guards the Nice cinemas on avenue Medecin and I have never seen a need for them either. Supermarkets and Fnac, yes. For shoplifting, no doubt.
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written by Mike P , 15 September 2008
The sole purpose of this particular 'guard' seemed to be to stop people getting past the foyer without tickets, which they would only have done if they wanted to use the filthy toilet or the scruffy overpriced junk food bar. They would not have been able to get into the actual cinema without a ticket so it seems pretty pointless.

Ironically after I'd come out of the toilets on my way past I sarcastically thanked him for so graciously allowing me to use the facilities whereupon he told me he could 'ban' me from buying a ticket! It is exactly this type of bullying and abuse that sums up so much of what is wrong with the UK.
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written by Shortia , 15 September 2008
Mike P,

Your cinema guard is nothing new - it happened to me in a small town outside of Glasgow years ago. One thing that never happened was being asked to empty the contents of my rucsac in a supermarket....which seemingly is the 'norm' here. So many times in the Intermarche on blv gambetta in Nice...i've refused only to be met with some attitude. I always ask the assistant what is in their bag.
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written by Ann Marie , 29 September 2008
To add science to this report, I would site Aamer Sarfraz et al [2008] who found that English patients who abused alcohol had lower referral rate for future intervention, younger age group,severe alcohol abuse and less chance of a psychiatric follow-up. While the evidence for English youth and binge/severe drinking is well documented, low referral rate and follow-up may reflect different structure of local services. Drug and alcohol service
is a part of mental health services in Lille, but in Dartford, like elsewhere in England, this service is independent and tends to depend on self-referral. This may also explain, albeit partially, the lower frequency of drug and alcohol abuse as a reason for referral in Dartford as some of these patients would be assessed
at the A&E and discharged with advice regarding self-referral to drug and alcohol service without referral to psychiatric or NHS substance misuse services. It may also reflect the absence of integrated services for dual diagnosis as proposed by the English government.
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written by Elgan , 29 October 2008
There's only one word for life in the UK. Dysfunctional.

But the same word applies to France!
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written by Walgren , 31 October 2008
These days it applies to eveywhere!
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